[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
Welcome to the weekly Deep Dive podcast on the Add On Education Network. The podcast where we explore the weekly Come follow me discussion and try to add a little insight and unique perspective. I’m your host, Jason Lloyd, and at the risk of sounding a little sacrilegious here on Easter Sunday, Nate is back from the dead.
[00:00:32] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh.
What is up?
[00:00:36] Speaker A: Welcome back, Nate. It’s good.
[00:00:38] Speaker B: Holy cow, dude.
[00:00:40] Speaker A: That played kind of a toll on you guys. Yeah.
[00:00:42] Speaker B: Holy cow, man. That was.
Look, I do not recommend anybody getting Covid if they don’t have to. I’m just going to throw that out there. Like, look, you do whatever you need to do as far as your own beliefs and politics and science on whatever, man. But I’m just gonna tell you this. That was miserable.
[00:01:03] Speaker A: You know, it’s the luck of the draw, and you don’t want to find out. You’re. You’re. You’re unlucky, I guess. When the draw hits you right, if you can. If you can prevent it, then Holy cow, man.
[00:01:12] Speaker B: I did definitely want to say, though, thank you. I.
You can.
I truly felt the prayers and the fasting. And, Jason, I know you specifically and your family fasted for our family. And I know that, you know, you had mentioned even in the podcast that you had to do by yourself, because I was dying on a bed somewhere, that you had people send out prayers. So I definitely wanted to say thank you. And the prayers were needed and the fasting was needed, but I truly believe in the power of that stuff. And I’m not all the way back to where I was pre Covid, but I can say that I’m back working again and we’re doing this again. And I can’t overstate how much me and my family appreciate the prayers that went out for us. So thank you.
[00:02:06] Speaker A: Absolutely. And I have to say, probably on behalf of all of our audience as well, it’s good to have you back.
[00:02:13] Speaker B: Thanks.
[00:02:13] Speaker A: It’s nice to have the dynamic, the music, the professionalism, everything you bring to the show. So thanks. We are glad that you are doing well, and we are glad that you are at least on the men’s.
[00:02:23] Speaker B: Thank you. I appreciate it.
[00:02:25] Speaker A: So in this episode, we are going to cover a series of revelations that the church received during a conference in late September, 1830. It is addressed to pretty recent members of the church. You have got to remember, the church is restored in 1830, and these guys are getting called to be missionaries. You have got guys being called to be apostles. And you might think it is daunting. If you’re a member of the church that just barely gets baptized within the last year or so. But these guys are being called out of nowhere. And Thomas Marsh, we remember him for being the guy that had the whole fight and dispute over the cream and the bucket and the milk and the whatnot. And we don’t really remember him for the guy that came across the early manuscripts of the Book of Mormon before it was printed, only got a preview of 16 pages, read the 16 pages on the spot. He believed, and despite the. The tribulations and problems that he got from his family, he went and. And embraced this gospel. And here the Lord is calling these new young blood people to, to go out and convert the rest of the world, just as they’d been recently converted as well.
[00:03:36] Speaker B: And is it true, Correct me if I’m wrong, a lot of these guys would get their callings, like without knowing they were getting callings to do this at conference, right?
[00:03:43] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, absolutely.
[00:03:44] Speaker B: They would go to these meetings and be like, oh, and by the way, brother, so. And so, pack your bags, you’re going on a mission.
[00:03:50] Speaker A: Surprise.
Yeah.
[00:03:53] Speaker B: That’s insane.
[00:03:55] Speaker A: It’s pretty wild. And it shows the urgency that the Lord was trying to push. And that’s something that’s kind of common in this, this section right here, as we’re going through this, this is seven sections of Doctrine and Covenants. But there’s some very common themes here as the Lord is pushing the urgency of getting this message out. And really he says here in one of these verses, to prepare against the time of gathering, because we know that it is coming. The saints are going to have to gather, leave the United States, cross the plains, get into the Rocky Mountains. They are going to go through all sorts of hardships even before they get to that point. And to get ready for that, the Lord seeing this from the beginning, is pushing hard right from the start. So let s dive in. Doctrine and Covenants, Section 30, Verse 2. This is some of my favorite verses here. It says, let’s see.
But your mind has been on the things of the earth. And this is addressed to David Whitmer. More than the things of me, your Maker, and the ministry whereunto you have been called, and you have not given heed unto my spirit and to those who were set over you, but have been persuaded by those who I am not commanded, wherefore you are left to inquire for yourself at my hand, and to ponder upon the things which you have received.
And this is what I like so much about it. When he says your mind was so much on the things of the earth. And that’s something that I can relate to because I feel like a lot of us are very busy people. Oh, yeah, yeah. I’ve got six kids, and it’s soccer season and games, practices. My wife is running left and right. I’m going to grad school. We’ve got work going on things. It’s just busy. And it’s very easy to get caught up in the things of the world.
[00:05:43] Speaker B: Well, busy is a trap word in general. Busy. Busy is a word that you can use. You know what I mean? And I know this is where you’re going, but it is funny because busy is such a. Is such a trap word when it comes to other responsibilities in life.
[00:05:58] Speaker A: Absolutely. And sometimes, something I’ve noticed, sometimes it’s the busiest people that you can rely on the most because they know how to organize and still get things done. Sometimes when you don’t have anything on your plate, you’re. You’re so used to putting things off and, and not so much in a hurry or not so much worried about getting it done that you never get around to doing it.
[00:06:18] Speaker B: But I argue that those people would still say that they’re busy. Like, that’s. It’s like, dude, who do you know? Who do you know in this world that when you ask them, like, hey, how are things going? They don’t say, man, I’m just really busy. Like, who. Who doesn’t say that? Right. And that. It’s funny. It’s funny because to your point, I agree with you. Like, the people that are actually, like, getting things done are the people, like you said, that have learned how to get things done. And don’t use busy as an excuse or don’t use. Don’t use busy as a reason that they can’t do important things. But people that sometimes really don’t have that much going on, but will use busy as their excuse to not put important things on their. On their plate.
[00:07:00] Speaker A: Yeah.
And, you know, maybe the Lord is giving us a key on how to balance this right here, because he says that your mind has been on the things of the earth more than the things of me. Not saying that it’s bad that your mind is on the things of the earth. Not saying that, you know, I understand you’ve got a farm. I understand you’ve got a family. I understand you have responsibilities and that you’re concerned. But you also need to understand there’s priorities and balance. And how do we balance that? How do we make that work. And it’s interesting here because he says not just more than on the things of me, your maker, but he also says, and the ministry whereunto you have been called. And the two words that stick out to me here, ministry and call. Because I think everyone here, we’ve got, I imagine most of us here, we have ministering assignments and we are called to minister. And not just ministering assignments, but also callings in the church are callings to serve the Lord. The Lord relies not on his angels or him to come down and just run things, but he gives us a share of the pie, an opportunity to participate in the work of salvation, to be involved, to be engaged.
And do we take time from our busy lives, if you will, to balance that and actually stop and think about what can I do to actually be a better minister? Who am I ministering to? What are their needs? What do they need right now? What can I prepare? What can I bring them? What can I offer them? And have those thoughts.
[00:08:36] Speaker B: It was funny because as you said that I was going to ask you the question, what do you think is more important?
The ministry that you are assigned to or the calling that you have been set apart for?
[00:08:48] Speaker A: Yeah, I think they are both important, right?
[00:08:50] Speaker B: I think they are both important. I just wonder sometimes, I wonder sometimes if one’s easier to do even if it takes more time because it’s nice being told like, hey, here’s your calling. Like, you show up to this meeting, you write down these notes, you make these phone calls and you have fulfilled your calling, right?
Where our ministering assignments, they’ve taken away more and more and more and more rigid guidelines for those things to be like, go minister to your families individually, like, learn. You’re going to have to spend the time learning the unique situations in which you’re being called in which you’re being asked to minister to people. So I, I sometimes wonder. I, I know that there’s probably no right answer, but sometimes when I look at those things, I always go, I wonder what, I wonder what’s the most important, like going to your meetings and, and fulfilling your calling the right way or ministering to your ministering assignments the way that Jesus would.
[00:09:52] Speaker A: Well, it’s a good question. And I think in your calling, oftentimes you are also ministering just as you would in a ministry deal, right?
If you are an advisor in a deacons quorum and you are looking at those boys and trying to find out how do I love those boys, how do I prepare them for the challenges that they are going to have. How can I give them a sense of adventure, camaraderie, and just truly minister to them? Because I see what you are saying and I hear you, but I don’t think in a calling necessarily we are given a manual that tells you, for these boys, this is exactly how I want you to run this thing. And I look at verse four and I think the Lord really is giving us a clue here. When he tells David Whitmer, he says, wherefore you are left to inquire for yourself at my hand and ponder upon the things which you have received. Because the Lord is saying, yeah, you didn’t balance that very well. You were so distracted by the things of the world that you didn’t spend a whole lot of time thinking about what your calling and your ministry was. Now I want you to go back. I’m not going to tell you what you need to do. I’m not going to give you this manual that tells you who you should talk to and how long you should talk to and what you should say to them. I want you to think about it. And as you start putting. Because that’s what he got in trouble for, you don’t think about the things that I’m asking you to do. Enough. Take some time. I don’t care if you schedule an hour out of your day once a week where you can actually just think about your assignment, your calling, or your ministry, who you’re going to talk to. And in that moment of reflection, when you ponder and inquire of the Lord what you should do, then that dialogue happens. Then that manual starts to become more and more evident, I think in both callings, whether it’s ministering to somebody and what they need or how you should have that discussion to figure out what their needs are. But I think that’s what the Lord’s telling him. You know, take some time at least to think about it.
[00:11:46] Speaker B: I’m a big, I’m a big, I’m a big believer and a big supporter of pondering. It’s, it’s one of the, it was always the forgotten three of the search, Ponder and pray. You know, it seemed like it at least because, because again, like, it’s, it can be kind of vague at times. But it’s so funny because to your point and to, and to the point that we’re talking about here, you, you can ponder also, by the way, while you’re doing your work and while you’re, you know, I mean, it’s like you can plow a field and I understand that, that you have to be paying attention to what you’re doing, but like the job that I had right before I quit, kind of like my nine to five day job and started doing music full time, I worked for an amazing company spraying lawns, right? And I remember so many times, like if I was preparing, I was teaching gospel doctrine at the time or something like that, right? And so many times at work in somebody’s backyard, you know, walking around spraying their yard, but really thinking of what I wanted to, like what I wanted to learn for myself in that lesson so that I could have some insight teaching it next week. And it’s crazy how many, how, how just having your focus correctly can really help you in, in pondering, right? And so many times I could be spraying somebody’s backyard, but in my brain I’m going over like, but why would Jesus say this in this circumstance? You know what I mean? And it’s funny because, because no lie, like I received so many of like my most profound life changing insights in some rich person’s backyard, spraying their fertilizer all over the place, like out there crying in some random person’s backyard in alpine, you know, as I’m spraying the thing. But I think that, I think that as we’re reading this, it speaks to me only because you go, yes, the Lord requires us to do this. But, but it’s funny because I think that sometimes we, we, we unnecessarily compartmentalize this. Like if you’re pondering, it means you have to go find a quiet room and you have to turn off all the lights and you have to, you know, I mean, like, you have to go through this process and whatever. And I’m like, no, you could be out plowing the field. It’s where your mind is, right? It’s like, it’s because your mind’s going to be somewhere when you’re doing this stuff anyways, right? And so we could allow ourselves so many more chances to be receiving revelation during the day, during our day jobs, during, during the times where, yeah, our bodies might be physically doing something else, but so much of it can be just where your thoughts are or where your focus is.
[00:14:28] Speaker A: I love it. I love that you mentioned that I worked similar growing up. I worked for a general contractor and we were always sweeping driveways or throwing wood away or whatever the case may be. And you do, you wander a little bit, you start thinking about what do I want to do? And that time that you spend or that you invest in thinking about your future or Thinking about the gospel or thinking about your family, because so many times you get paralyzed by not knowing what to do. If you’re just waiting to the moment where you’re going to act and you’ve got this family, but you’re not sure, do they want me to go visit them, or they just want me to call them, or what do I. And I just don’t know how to handle this. So I’m not going to do anything because there wasn’t any time that we put in pondering it or thinking about it beforehand. How do I address this? What do I do? Okay, I’m just going to take some quiet time. And they mentioned in conference this weekend, one of the. I believe it was President Nelson at the end of the priesthood session, when he’s talking about the benefits. And some of the things that we’ve learned from COVID is that when we get less busy and we start to be still and think and learn, you know, I think that’s just what we need to do, is when we’re as busy as we get to be with life. And we all know, like you said, I mean busy, we can all be busy.
[00:15:42] Speaker B: Sure. And we do all have responsibilities, too, like you said, you’re not discrediting, needing to get things done.
[00:15:49] Speaker A: Right. But let’s take, whether it’s 30 minutes, 20 minutes, whatever fits in your schedule. Just take a little bit of time, as he says, to ponder and to ask the Lord and to have that discussion with him. This is my calling. This is my responsibility.
How do I do this? What is the best approach? What is. What is the revelation so that we’re not just, I don’t know what to do, so I’m not going to do anything.
Perfect. Let’s move in a little bit further. There’s. There’s something else here that he said that I believe is key. It says, you’ve been persuaded by those who I have not commanded rather than those who were set over you. And I found that interesting in the council that he was given to him because we have parents, we’ve got priesthood leaders, we’ve got ministers, and ultimately God tells us, asking, you shall receive. He. He’s not shy about saying, if you have problems or question, come to me. Let’s talk about it. Let’s reason together.
And rather than following all of the support structure that we have, how many times do we turn to outside resources and try to find a solution to what we’re looking for there, rather than something that’s readily there? And not to sound too Cliche, but I mean, it sounds a lot like wizard of Oz. And the whole lesson that Dorothy learns at the very end, right? When you know she’s not going to look past her own, I mean, she’s always looking for something else that you don’t have when you didn’t realize all along you had it there to begin with.
All right, let’s go into doctrine covenants, section 31 and verse 5, it says, Therefore, thrust in your sickle with all your soul and your sins.
[00:17:31] Speaker B: That’s why I’ve heard this before.
[00:17:32] Speaker A: I know it’s a pretty common theme and I like it. I like it because it’s all about gathering. Even in conference this weekend, how many times they talk about gathering and let’s get gathering.
It’s a huge task and from day one they’ve been pushing it with all your soul and your sins are forgiven you and you shall be laden with sheaths upon your back, for the labor is worthy of his hire. And I thought, wait a second, if you’re going to be laden with sheaves on your back, doesn’t that sound like a not so great thing? Like, go ahead, thrust in your sickle and I will make your load really heavy for you to bury. Right? That doesn’t seem. Or to carry. Sorry, it doesn’t seem like a great reward. But he says here, for the laborer is worthy of his hire. So when they’re talking about the sheaths that he’s playing on you, this is like a payment or a wage. This is a labor, and he’s worthy of his hire or the wage. The sheaths that are stacking upon you is your wage. And think about the wheat. The fruit of the wheat is the harvest, the reward. And if we talk about wheat as being people, then what I think of here is the fruit of those people. The people’s decisions, the people’s actions, the people, how they change.
Those are the fruit that’s being harvested up or bundled up and laid upon you. What greater reward does a parent have when they see their child get it and they change? Or they behave differently because they understand it? No longer are they saying, why can’t I? But they do it because they understand it all on their own. Or what greater reward does a missionary have when somebody they teach understands it and all of a sudden you see them making life changing choices. This is the fruit of the wheat, the actions that they’re doing, and you see that it’s a reward in and of itself. As you see the happiness that they get and you see the fruit of their labors and the fruit of your labors, it’s all a reward in itself. But as he’s stacking them on here, I can’t help but think of a just God looking for an excuse to pour blessings upon us. And as he looks at us and says, you know what? You are indirectly responsible for this person having changed their life. And, you know, I can’t help but think of it’s a wonderful life, right? When you look at all the actions that this guy, if he hadn’t have been there, and everything that changed for the worse when he was absent and when he’s there, he says, look it, you’re making a difference. And all of this is to your credit. And because of that, the Lord is willing to bless us. And sometimes we say, you know what? I’m blessed a lot more than I should be. Or it feels like God is always but the fruit of all of these actions, these positive influences that we’re having on other is our reward as God is heaping that on us and using it as an excuse to rain down even more blessings upon us.
[00:20:30] Speaker B: Love it. I love the imagery of that.
[00:20:32] Speaker A: Okay, so let’s fast forward a little bit then to doctrine and Covenants 31 8. And we’re going to go to Thomas Marsh here.
He was commanded to strengthen the church and prepare them against the time that they should be gathered. We kind of hit on this in our introduction a little bit, and we talked about Thomas Marsh and what he’s known for.
And as he’s preparing the people against the time that they should be gathered.
I just want to hit here. Thomas Marsh was a very eloquent speaker. He was selected as a member of a committee to lay the grievances of the saints before the authorities of the state to try to get the state to help them out. And we know how willing the governments were at that time to lift a finger, do anything to help the saints, right?
[00:21:23] Speaker B: They were super willing. They were looking for ways to help the saints.
[00:21:26] Speaker A: It was a tough mission.
And on the occasion he spoke so impressively that General Atkinson, who was present, shed tears and the meeting passed resolutions to assist the saints in finding a new location. So he definitely played a key role in preparing the Saints against the time that they would be gathered together and even incorporating the government’s help in helping to relocate them or sympathize with them and help them as much as possible.
And we know that Thomas Marsh kind of went through a rough time. 1838 was kind of the year of apostasy a lot of prominent church members left. But the cool thing is, I don’t know how much we realized this. Thomas Marsh made amends and he went back to Utah and he spoke in front of the general assembly of the church.
And I’ve got his quote right here. He explains what happened and what he went through. He says, I became jealous of the prophet and then I saw double and overlooked everything that was right and spent all my time in looking for the vial. I saw a beam in Brother Joseph’s eye, but it was nothing but a moat, and my own eye was filled with the beam. I talked with Brother Brigham and Brother Heber, and I wanted them to be mad like myself. And I saw that they were not mad, and I got madder still because they were not. Brother Brigham, with a cautious look, said, are you the leader of the church, Brother Thomas? I answered, no. Well, then he said, why do you not let that alone? Well, this was about the amount of my hypocrisy. I meddled with that, which was not my business. And at the conclusion of him kind of apologizing and explaining what he went through, he was, by unanimous vote received back into full fellowship and membership of the church. So kind of a cool story of him seeing his faults.
And I think it’s kind of neat as you get his perspective here. I think a lot of times we find what we’re looking for.
And in this case, Thomas Marsh was looking for faults with the prophet or looking for reasons to kind of cast blame or to find a problem. So he says he found double of that. But at the same time, he missed. He overlooked everything that was right at the same time. So if we’re cantankerous or angry with the church, and that’s all we’re focusing in on, a couple years back in conference, they talked about the analogy of you taking a pebble and you bring it right up in front of your eye and it becomes so large, it’s the only thing you see. You miss everything else. No matter how small that pebble is, it’s just out of perspective. And that’s how Jesus taught in the New Testament about that beam and the mote in the eye. So I’m glad he brought that example up.
Wherever we’re at, if you’re looking.
If you’re looking for fault, if you’re looking for reasons to be disenfranchised, if you’re looking for something that’s going to give you an excuse to be upset, I think you’re going to find it. But if you’re looking for what’s right, or if you’re trying to put everything in perspective and be a little bit more fair, balanced in the approach, I think you get a better understanding of what’s going on.
[00:24:39] Speaker B: And to be fair, you’ll find what you’re looking for in that way, too, though. But the thing is, I think that it’s not as much about, hey, I need to find things that help prove, I don’t know, for example, the church is true. Yeah, you can find plenty of things that will prove it’s true and plenty of things that will prove it’s false. But I think to your point and to the bigger lesson, you’ll find what you’re looking for. So look for goodness in the world. You know what I mean? Like, look for ways that you can serve your neighbor. Like, this is. This doesn’t even have to be, hey, go find the things that you need to. To convince you that all of this is true. It’s like, hey, how about instead, go. Go look for things that you can do to be a better citizen in your community. Go look for those things. Because the thing is, like, in my opinion, the. The fruits of those things will lead you to other good things. Like, if you, if you look for good things, you’ll find good things. Right? And to you and I, we can say, cool, like, a lot of the service that we get to do in this church and even things like this podcast and stuff, they’re healthy for our souls. Like, the fruits of those things are that we feel better, right?
[00:25:52] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:25:53] Speaker B: We don’t do this because we’re out looking for, I mean, I don’t know about you, I don’t think so, but it’s like, we’re not out here doing this looking for, I don’t know, fame and money and glory, right? Because if so, we’re failing miserably. But. But I think that both of us, when we do this, are looking for ways to edify ourselves and to edify each other and to hopefully potentially edify some people that listen to this. Right? And so to your point, like, yeah, you can find whatever you want to find. So. So how about, how about go find ways to just be a good person? How about go find ways to be uplifted. Go. You know what I mean? And in my opinion, you will. Because of that, you will naturally, the universal principle is that you will attract other good things, you will find other good things, and in a lot of cases will lead you back to the source of all goodness, you know, well.
[00:26:47] Speaker A: To Take this full circle back with where we started, right? If you’re super busy, are you looking for something else to do or are you looking for God?
Yeah. Is your eye single to him, to his ministry, his calling, to where that’s your first focus and you want to make sure that gets done and then everything else falls in? Or are you always looking for an excuse to be doing something else so that you can avoid that?
[00:27:11] Speaker B: To be distracted.
[00:27:12] Speaker A: To be distracted. Excellent.
[00:27:14] Speaker B: I love it.
[00:27:16] Speaker A: All right.
[00:27:17] Speaker B: I do love. I do love. It’s funny because the last line of that quote is, I meddled with that, which was not my business. I’m like, man, how much I would love to get rid of everybody’s live, laugh, love signs and replace it with metal knot with that which is not your business.
Dude, I wonder if we. We could probably make a killing in the. Like the. In, like the sign, the living room. The living room Mormon sign.
I don’t know. Part of the. Part of the financial ecosystem.
Dude, live, laugh, love. Give me a break. Metal, metal with that, which is not your business. Don’t. Don’t meddle with that which is not your business. Dude, is. That’s going to be my new slogan. I’m going to get that sign. I’m hanging it up in here.
[00:28:02] Speaker A: As long as you still got the. Live to begat another day.
[00:28:04] Speaker B: Live to begat another day. Begat to begat another day.
[00:28:09] Speaker A: All right, I’m going to move down to verse 11. And this I, you know, more than anything, it kind of cracked me up. It says, go your way, whithersoever, I will. And you’re like, wait a second. Usually doesn’t it go. Go your way, whithersoever, you will. But if it’s your way, then why are you saying, wherever I want you to go? But I think that is the Lord again showing us this whole idea or concept of being unified.
When our way is his way and we are aligned with him, that is when powerful things start happening. And he trusts us. He is not telling him, here, I want you to go. Here I want you to go Here he is saying, you know what? I want you to think or care enough about this that you talk with me about it and come to me looking for some guidance, and I will help you find where you should go. But it’s got to be your choice, your agency, because that’s how it was from the very beginning. So go your way, whithersoever, I will. And it will be given to you by the comforter. What you should do and whither you shall go. Not that he’s going to take his agency away and say, hey, this is what I want you to do. No, go your way.
But when you’re doing these things, care enough about this work that you’re coming to me, or that you’re interested and concerned and that we’re figuring this out because you want to, because it is your way to do this.
[00:29:26] Speaker B: Love it.
[00:29:28] Speaker A: And then this goes in and out of the Scriptures all of the time. And it is just one of the fundamentals there. Pray always, lest you enter temptation and lose your reward. It is a powerful thing. It is a Sunday school answer, but it is a Sunday school answer for a reason. It is the fundamentals and how many times in sports you can practice all sorts of trick moves or shots or whatever you are going to do, but if you fail at the fundamentals, you’re not going to go far.
Just pray always. And I love how they said it in the doctrine and covenants 29, the last section we talked about where he says, the Lord would gather you, but one of the conditions of being gathered was mighty prayer. And how is it just praying always, but also developing that mighty prayer. And think of all the stories in the Scriptures that reference prayer. And Enos. And Enos.
It’s a powerful thing. I guess that’s all I’ll say.
[00:30:20] Speaker B: I am in that prayer is a powerful thing.
[00:30:23] Speaker A: Absolutely.
Let’s go to section 32.
And I find it cool when the Lord says, and I will go with them.
And do you ever feel the presence of somebody? And I was always impressed with Elder Richard G. Scott. He came to our mission when I was down in Mexico and he spoke to us.
Really impressed with him. And one time after my mission, as I was headed into the Jordan River Temple, he was headed out. And I almost recognized him and knew him before I even saw and recognized him with my eyes, just with the spirit that he like I knew I was in his presence. And when the Lord is saying, I will go with you, you have to wonder how many times is the Lord with us on the other side of the veil or what we’re feeling. That presence is the power of not just the person, but the company that they keep both on this side of the veil and the other side of the veil. And as I was reading this verse and I was thinking about it, I couldn’t help but think of a scripture or not scripture, a talk that President Brigham Young gave to the saints when he said, you know, you care so much about breeding your Cattle, making sure that you’re getting the best milk or the best meat or whatever the case may be. He says, but what if you were to take care in your own breeding, in a sense that, what kind of company do you hang out with? Are you hanging out in the bars? Are you gambling? Are you doing this? Or are you behaving in a way that the spirits on that side of the veil would want to associate with you and feel comfortable with you?
If you’re creating an environment in which people on the other side of the veil would be comfortable being around you, what kind of influence are you building up there? And what kind of children are going to want to come join your family because of the atmosphere that you are creating? It was just kind of a thought provoking, interesting question. Sorry, I don’t have the actual quote right here that we could, that we could dive in and talk about, but I think there’s a powerful imagery there. And I think we’ve all felt that we’ve been around environments that we feel less comfortable in, whether listening to a song, the lyrics of the song kind of bother us, or a lot of behavior or something that’s happening that just doesn’t quite feel right and we’re just not comfortable being there. Well, if think about the presence that’s with us, maybe on the other side of the veil, as well as the Lord is saying, I will go with them, I will be with them, and you can feel the presence of the Lord, you can feel the presence of that influence.
[00:32:49] Speaker B: I think there’s something that’s great insight. I think there’s something that’s even more practical about too. And I know I’ve talked about it a little bit on this podcast or in one of our podcasts before, but when Elder Holland came and spoke to the youth when I was serving in the young men’s and where he quite literally just said, how would you act if Heavenly Father promised you that as long as you’re. You’re acting right, that he can walk with you and be with you and help you make good decisions and protect you? And everybody’s like, yeah, I would love that. And he’s like, okay, well, what if I told you that Jesus Christ has. Could be with you at all time, a God could be with you to protect you and to help you make right decisions and to help you with your schoolwork and you know what I mean? And then you’re like, yeah, of course with you. And he’s like, okay, well then why don’t we give the Holy Ghost that same respect.
[00:33:36] Speaker A: Excellent point.
[00:33:37] Speaker B: Because he said, a member of the Godhead, a God we have been promised can be with you at all times.
Why do we always give the Holy Ghost like such a lesser billing? Right? But the thing is, when I read this and when we see this, when he says, I will go with them, there’s a very literal, practical way that God has.
For those of us that have been baptized and been given the gift of the Holy Ghost, we have been promised that a God will be with us, will reside with us, will stay with us, to bring us peace in the midst of the storm, to protect us, to help guide us, to direct us, to answer questions.
It’s us that doesn’t take advantage of that.
[00:34:19] Speaker A: It’s us that maybe doesn’t take that serious.
[00:34:21] Speaker B: That’s exactly right. It’s us that makes the decisions that would make that so that that can’t happen. Even though we’ve been promised a God, one with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. Per Jesus Christ’s own testimony, he and the Father and the Holy Ghost are one. We’re promised that a member of the Godhead, a God can be with us if, if we just make those decisions that, that, that in a very practical way will let God be with us.
[00:34:53] Speaker A: Well, and you look at the story as Joseph Smith says, he doesn’t blame anyone for not believing his history because if it didn’t happen to him, he probably wouldn’t have believed it anyways either. I mean, you think of this golden Bible and the weird everything that there is. But what converts people, as you say, going right back to that point, the Holy Ghost, when you feel that spirit testify, when you feel that and you can’t deny it, and the Spirit is conveying truth to your soul, there’s something powerful about that.
[00:35:23] Speaker B: Well, a God’s confirming it. A God, a God who Jesus Christ said is one with him and the Father.
[00:35:31] Speaker A: Yep.
I’m so glad you said that.
[00:35:34] Speaker B: It’s interesting because, like, it still feels weird just to talk about it.
Even when literally an apostle of God said, here’s what I’m telling you.
A God who is one with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. And it still feels so weird to be like, why do we always think of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ? And then just like a weird tear down we go, and then the Holy Ghost, why do we do that?
[00:36:02] Speaker A: And you know, I think Joseph, the prophet Joseph got it.
[00:36:06] Speaker B: Oh yeah.
[00:36:08] Speaker A: And he said once. This cracks me up.
I believe he said something to the effect of, I am the smartest man alive and you’re like, well, that seems kind of arrogant. And then he corrects himself, says, well, I’m not, but I have the spirit here. And the Holy Ghost definitely is.
[00:36:24] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
[00:36:27] Speaker A: But I don’t know, it’s just kind of a random story that popped in my mind, giving credit where credit is due. But you’re right, the Godhead, I mean the Holy Ghost, it’s a powerful thing.
[00:36:36] Speaker B: I always just get, I always get so hung up on that because it was so profound. And the reason I get hung up on it is because I still, it’s still me. That then still limits the glory that I can wrap my brain around that we afford the Holy Ghost when Jesus Christ has told us very literally we’re one, me and my Father and the Holy Ghost, we are one. And that’s the reason we call them a Godhead. You know what I mean? And it’s just, I don’t know, sometimes it’s a fun exercise to even then go, okay, cool. Then an omnipotent, omniscient, you know what I mean? Like, it’s like, why, why is the holy. Why don’t we, why don’t we live our lives?
Why do we make the decisions on a daily basis to not allow an all powerful God to be with us and reside with us at all times? I’ll quit hammering on this. But the only reason is just because, the only reason I talk about it so much is because it blows my own mind. I’m always just like, why do, why do I never afford the Holy Ghost?
It’s the Holy Ghost’s appropriate glory.
[00:37:52] Speaker A: Well, and like you say, going back to what he said early on, like, how would you behave if, if Jesus was here? How would you behave if Heavenly Father was here? And, and, and the, the environment that we are creating either makes it comfortable for the Spirit to be there and empower us or makes it feel uncomfortable to where he’s not going to want to be in that situation.
[00:38:14] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:38:15] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:38:16] Speaker B: Our decisions though, our decisions.
[00:38:20] Speaker A: That’S a key thing. Over and over, he respects our agency.
[00:38:24] Speaker B: It’s. Thank you, amen. Thank you, amen. And it’s funny too, because then I’m sorry to take this one step further. Think of the power that we have then to, to be, to be the ones to determine whether a, an all powerful God gets to be with us at all times or not. Like, like, how incredible is that? That as, as a imperfect knucklehead, the power is truly within me to go, I’m going to make the correct decisions in My life. I’m going to repent. I’m going to take advantage of the atonement. I’m going to be more careful of what I’m listening to. I’m going to be more careful of what I say and watch. You know what I mean?
[00:39:10] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:39:10] Speaker B: So that, so that I can allow a God who has promised to be with me if, If, If I live up to my end of the deal. It’s just like. It’s just crazy. The power that we have as imperfect knuckleheads.
[00:39:28] Speaker A: When the Lord says I. The Lord am bound.
[00:39:31] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:39:31] Speaker A: When you do what I say.
[00:39:32] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:39:33] Speaker A: To bind to God. And, and sorry. You got me out of.
[00:39:38] Speaker B: I know. I’m sorry. I know. Look, man, post covet. I’m all over the place.
[00:39:43] Speaker A: I’m so glad to have you back.
[00:39:44] Speaker B: I’m. I’m. I’m here, man. I’m in it. The fact that I made it out the other side, I’m living life at this point, dude. So anyways, I apologize for taking this.
[00:39:52] Speaker A: Don’t apologize.
[00:39:53] Speaker B: It’s just such incredible thought exercises. I feel like sometimes for me and so I’ll leave it alone.
[00:40:00] Speaker A: No, no, no, no. I’m saying I’m taking it one step further, and I apologize is when, when I think of covenant making in the Old Testament, when, When a country conquered another country, they had to create this treaty. And the bigger country says, we will protect you. And it’s not very different from what we have with the protection, racketeering and the gangs and what they do.
[00:40:19] Speaker B: Right.
[00:40:20] Speaker A: Extortion, if you will. Like, we will protect you if you pay us protection money. So it was deciding what vassal kingdom was going to be paying what tribute to what kingdom for protection.
And it was always the weaker one that had to pay the protection money. What they would do is they would cut animals in half, part the parts on either side, and they would make the weaker party walk through the animal pieces as a sign saying, we will pay tribute to you and in turn you will protect us. And if we don’t, may we be divided and killed like these animals and split apart and destroyed just like these animals were.
[00:40:56] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:40:56] Speaker A: And when God goes to make a covenant with Abraham and you think, who is the weaker party here? Who’s the one that can destroy who? And yet God. So Abraham, he cuts the animal, he divides them in half, and he’s sitting there all day waiting for the Lord, chasing the flies away and keeping this sacrifice clean, ready, waiting on the Lord. And when the Lord comes, he doesn’t make Abraham walk between the two parts. Even though God is the larger party here, all of a sudden, the light passes through the parts. The Lord binding himself, subjecting himself to Abraham, saying, I will serve you. I will if you keep my commandments. I am here to serve you. And that was the crazy message that Christ came, right? I am here to serve you.
[00:41:41] Speaker B: I am the perfect person that’s going to pay the price for all of you imperfect people. I mean, it’s profound.
It’s unbelievable. It’s miraculous.
That’s such a cool.
The Old Testament covenant making was always. Was always a trip. Was always a trip. I wish I understood that stuff a lot better. I’m excited for when we get to get into the Old Testament next year.
[00:42:06] Speaker A: That’s going to be a fun year.
[00:42:08] Speaker B: All right. Sorry for derailing it.
[00:42:09] Speaker A: Oh, you’re great.
[00:42:10] Speaker B: Let’s keep moving.
[00:42:11] Speaker A: Okay. So they say, pretend to no other revelation. I think that’s kind of funny. Don’t pretend to any other revelation. But you know what? It was warranted because this is the conference where Joseph Smith is addressing the issue with Hiram Page and the stone.
[00:42:22] Speaker B: That’s right.
[00:42:23] Speaker A: And. And then. And shortly before this is when Oliver was it. Oliver Cowdery writes Joseph Smith and says, you know what? You’ve got to change the revelation. I command you in the name of the Lord. You need to change it. He’s like, I can’t change it. That’s what the Lord said. Like, stop commanding me.
All of these revelations that you guys are saying are coming from the Lord. Like, let’s not pretend to any other revelation here, guys. Let’s not get carried away. Let’s follow what the Lord is laying out for us and not be overly anxious and eager that we’re starting to invent things here. Let’s not pretend other revelations. Just stay focused here for a minute.
[00:42:58] Speaker B: I like it.
[00:42:59] Speaker A: Okay. And then. Oh, this was kind of cool. Doctrine and covenants 33. The field is white already to harvest, and it is the 11th hour, the last time that I shall call laborers to my field. And this is a parable in the New Testament.
[00:43:13] Speaker B: I love it. I love this parable, too. Keep going.
[00:43:15] Speaker A: Yeah. Because he says in the first hour, he calls so many in the second hour and the third hour and the fourth hour, and the eleventh hour is the last hour. There is only one more. So I don’t know if you know this about the Jewish days. There are always 12 hours in a day. It doesn’t matter what’s going on. Daylight saving. None of that is relevant. When the sun is up and it’s light, then that’s when the hours start. And when the sun goes down, that’s when the hours end. And there’s always 12 of them. So an hour is not always 60 minutes. It’s just however much time you’re equally dividing it in. So that a day is 12 hours of light and a night is 12 hours of darkness.
[00:43:53] Speaker B: Interesting.
[00:43:53] Speaker A: Yeah. That’s the hours. So 6:00 is always noon, 11:00. It’s not the last hour. 12 is the last hour before you get there. So we’re not quite at the end, he’s saying, but it’s the 11th hour. But it’s probably the last hour to labor or work. Because in the 12th hour, he’s going to gather everyone in and give them their wages. And if you remember, they say, well, the 11th hour only worked for one hour, but they were getting paid.
[00:44:18] Speaker B: The early people were all pissed off.
[00:44:20] Speaker A: Yeah. Because they’re like, why don’t we get paid, like 12 times as much as this guy? We did 12 times as much work. But the Lord’s telling them, regardless of when you came to work, if you negotiated for this fee, this wage, and I pay you this wage, I’ve dealt with you fairly. Exactly.
[00:44:39] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:44:40] Speaker A: And I don’t know if the application here is. Well, they’ve been believing for thousands of years longer than we have because we came on the stage later or what, you know, and there’s always the. You can’t take a parable too far and start diving into different what it means. But, you know, maybe they are on the other side of the veil doing a work. Or maybe there’s some things that we don’t understand that we were working before we even came here to be.
[00:45:01] Speaker B: Or you can just look at it. You can look at it like all of us that as kids were just like, how unfair is that? That we have to follow the rules our whole life and then some dude at 90 is going to get baptized and he’s going to heaven. And, I mean, I think. I think that. I know. I think that you could look at this over, like, generations and years, or you could look at this like the way that we do sometimes. Look at this just going like, oh, man. Like, I’ve had to spend my whole life, like, following the rules and not partying and staying chased or whatever. And then I go on my mission and I baptize some dude that’s literally on, like, his deathbed and that’s this. This guy’s getting the Same, like, reward after the. You know what I mean? It’s like, it’s. It’s actually a fairly, like, common thought trap that we can get into at times, right? And, and, and I actually think. I actually think the parable applies so well to, to just us during a lifetime. More than, more than. More than necessarily, like, generations of people working before us. And then. But then it’s good to go, oh, cool, Then who are we actually in this parable? Right? Are we the people going? Are we the people going, oh, man. Like, we. We obeyed all the rules and we worked really hard all the time, and, and we didn’t get to, like, sow our wild oats and all of that type of stuff. But the thing is, like, I always look back and I’m like, oh, man, when I got the chance to serve a mission, some of these people that did get baptized later in life, I’m like, man, those dudes had hard lives leading up to this. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, I guess they were partying and doing all of the stuff that sounds fun when you’re a kid, but like, holy cow, like, those, Those things were so destructive to that person’s life that, like, this, them. Them accepting God and being baptized later in life is such a huge relief. And, and it’s. It means a lot to them because of how, how hard it was leading up to that. I’m like, man, me obeying the rules for the most part, like, growing up helped me avoid things that would have just been so terrible and destructive in my life. You know what I mean? And so when I look at this parable, I go, yeah, I see myself sometimes as the whiny dude. You know what I mean?
[00:47:11] Speaker A: Yeah, sure.
[00:47:11] Speaker B: I see myself at times as the guy going like, oh, what’s going on, man? I’ve been working this whole time, and I’m getting just the same reward as this other person that has just been doing whatever they want their whole lives. But then I’m going, like, no, no, no. I’ve also, like, I’ve also had a really rad life. Like, I’ve had an amazing life. And I attribute so much of that. I attribute all of that to.
To being blessed with being born into the covenant, to being taught from when I was a child. Like, avoid this because it’s going to take your agency from you. But don’t, you know, but if you do these things, you’re just going to be happier in life. Like, I attribute living and getting to have such an amazing life to having good parents. That taught me these things, right? And so, yeah, I am hopefully that dude that’s been laboring from the beginning of the day, right, in context of this parable. But it’s like the reward of getting to do that has been so incredibly, like, awesome. And for me at least, like, not always easy. But in general, the happiness that that’s brought me is like, oh, cool. Like, I now look at that parable different go, hey, I don’t mind being the dude working at the beginning of the day. And I’m at the end of the day going to be like, oh, hey, everybody that came on along in the 11th hour, like, this is awesome, right? I don’t know. Am I totally wrong about this?
[00:48:36] Speaker A: No, you’re right. You’re right. And it’s kind of like the prodigal son, right? And taking it kind of back to what we’ve been discussing already to say, you find what you’re looking for. And if you’re looking for a reason to be upset that you didn’t get somehow more than these guys, yeah, you’re going to find it. You’re going to be upset. But if you’re looking for a reason to be rejoicing, like, hey, these guys needed money and they found that opportunity, it’s not their fault they weren’t here earlier, but they’re more than willing to jump in. And I am super happy that they’re there now because now all of a sudden, the fruit of their work, the sheaves of the harvest, are being laid on you as your reward. You are rejoicing, you are happy. Because their choices is whether it is the first hour, the ninth hour, the eleventh hour, their choices brought them to where they can get paid. And it was a fair wage the Lord negotiated with them. Why not? So you find what you are looking for, whether you are going to be upset or whether you are going to be rejoicing and receive that wage for your hire.
[00:49:34] Speaker B: I love it.
I think it also comes back around to the end of that quote, too, which is stay out of stuff that’s not your own business.
[00:49:44] Speaker A: It does, it does.
[00:49:45] Speaker B: I mean, it kind of in a weird sort of way, like, has a very, like, also a very temporal application too, right? Like a very, very kind of current modern application, which is, stop counting somebody else’s money, man.
Like, if you’ve. If you’ve negotiated something and you’re being dealt fairly with, like, stop meddling in things which are not your business.
[00:50:07] Speaker A: And maybe it’s a little ironic they’re saying the 11th hour here but when they’re talking to these people, it’s almost like the first hour crowd they’re talking to. You’re talking about David Whitmer, you’re talking about Oliver Cowdery, you’re talking about Sidney Rigdon. And these people as they’re seeing these saints that are coming in after them and they leave the church, these first hours are offended or upset and they’re disenfranchised and they don’t think. And all of these people that are coming in later are all of a sudden exalted, if you will. Higher than them.
[00:50:35] Speaker B: Yeah. Or getting callings that might be more important than them or things like that. Yeah. I could see there was a little.
[00:50:41] Speaker A: Bit of hard feelings with that going on. And last of all, as we’re moving away from this, I would say, where it’s the 11th hour and you’ve got one more hour after this before it’s dark. I just want to say the Lord is pushing this gathering. He knows that a storm is coming before there’s daylight, before the saints can enjoy and kind of rest a little bit. He’s got to gather them in before the night. And the saints are going to go through all sorts of persecution, all sorts of problems that are just going to tear them apart. But the gates of hell will not prevail against them because the Lord is preparing them against that time. Because the night is coming and boy, is it going to come hard.
[00:51:21] Speaker B: I love it. I love that parable.
[00:51:23] Speaker A: All right, real quick then. Let’s see the Gospel of the doctrine and covenants 33:13. The gospel is the rock upon which the church is built on. And I love that distinction that the gospel is the rock.
[00:51:37] Speaker B: Not Peter.
[00:51:39] Speaker A: Not Peter. The gospel is the rock.
This idea of what Christ came to do, upon which the church is built on. And the church is not being called the rock here. The church is not this solid foundation that is always the same. And look at how the church has changed over time. I mean, and in our time, we see it go from a three hour to a two hour, from home teaching to ministering. The church changes according to the needs of the people. But what has not changed, even to 4,000 years before Christ comes. And this idea of Adam gathering his children together and teaching them about Christ coming and dying and providing a way, a savior, that we can return and live with our Father. This rock has not changed.
And I think going back to what you said with Peter, I mean, even part of that, the idea that God calls a prophet, that he’s not going to leave us in the dark, that he will reveal his plan, that he will talk about this rock, this. This foundation upon which the church can be built. Even if the church needs to fluctuate or change or accommodate different situations, the rock itself is unchanging and firm.
[00:52:45] Speaker B: It’s a great distinction. I love that.
[00:52:48] Speaker A: Okay. And just kind of finishing this up, it talks about the voices over and over again. It says they lift up their voices as a trump. And I can’t help but think of the Book of Revelation. When a trump sounds, is it not talking about the collective voices of missionary work or the collective voices of storms or collective voices of disasters? What is a trump? And as maybe we imagine this clear sounding trump sounding from heavens, and we all look up and say, uh, oh, something’s going to happen now. But maybe it has a different application. And maybe the Lord’s missionary force going through the whole world was the trump that was sounding, that he refers to when he’s talking about these things being fulfilled.
[00:53:30] Speaker B: Love it.
[00:53:31] Speaker A: And last, when he talks about the summer is nigh and the fig trees.
Fig trees, they produce fruit at the end of summer, early fall. So when the Lord is saying the summer is nigh, it is not to say that all of a sudden figs are going to start appearing. Figs don’t come till the end of summer or almost even early fall time. So he’s saying there is some time before these things start to happen. And even if you look at the example of a fig tree itself, a fig does not start producing fruit until the tree has been in the ground maybe three to five years. So there is this idea that we have a little bit of time that we have got to gather or prepare against for this gathering to take place and these things to start happening.
[00:54:12] Speaker B: Love it.
[00:54:14] Speaker A: All right, that’s, that’s, that’s all I got on this episode.
[00:54:18] Speaker B: I love it. I love it. What are we going to be talking about next week?
[00:54:21] Speaker A: Next week we’re going to be covering Doctrine Covenants 37 through 40. And the unifying idea there, if you’re not one, you’re not me.
[00:54:29] Speaker B: I love this. This is, this is going to be some good stuff. I just wanted to quickly, just right at the end of the episode, we.
The music that we have on this is from a project that I’m heavily involved with called Eastward. And for this Easter holiday, we just released a track called the Veil.
[00:54:53] Speaker A: Nice.
[00:54:53] Speaker B: Written by Rachel Manoa Brockbank. And she wrote one of the most deeply powerful, spiritual, Christ like driven songs that I’ve ever heard in my entire life. But it doesn’t sound like, like an EFY song or anything, but if I, I guess I just wanted to just quickly give a little shout out and a bump that if you have a few minutes, you want to have a very deep, moving, musical, spiritual experience, you should go and check it out on, I mean, Spotify and Apple or wherever you stream or listen to music. The project, the artist is called Eastward. The song is called the Veil. And yeah, right before the end in the song, she talks about having this vision of Christ in the gardens.
[00:55:43] Speaker A: It’s powerful, amazing. I’m going to go listen to it. I’ll even put a link to it on the show there on our website, so if you want to click on it from there.
[00:55:51] Speaker B: Perfect, perfect. Eastward is also the music that you hear coming in and out of the, out of the podcast. And, and so keep, keep your, keep your eyes peeled, be on the lookout.
But yeah, thanks for letting me do that little bump, by the way, Jason.
[00:56:06] Speaker A: Oh, super happy to have you back, Nate.
[00:56:08] Speaker B: Super thanks again everybody for your prayers. I can’t tell you how much it means to me to have. Have people looking out, so I appreciate it. All right, until next week, see y.
[00:56:21] Speaker A: Sa.
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